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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
27
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
When we asked for a T1 BS balance pass, we didn't mean pull a drive by and destroy the Amarr BS lineup.
Seriously, what are you thinking?
If you actually wanted to do something helpful, why not fix what needed fixing instead of just tossing everything out the window and puting in some half baked ship ideas.
Abaddon - Was fine, it was tanky and did good dps but was heavy on cap as a downside. If you wanted to tone it down, you could have touched its drones bay or something secondary.
Apocalypse - This was always supposed to be Amarr's sniper boat. Lower damage than the Armageddon and Abaddon, but way more projection and cap stability. If you wanted to help the Apoc, you should have fixed its horrible fitting and given it enough grid and CPU to fit Tachyons and given it decent base lock range.
Armageddon - This is possibly one of the dumbest changes I have seen to date. NO GEDDON PILOT EVER ASKED FOR THIS. The ship was FINE, it had a role as a laser damage boat with less tank than the baddon but with better cap stability. If you wanted to balance it, you could have eased its fitting and given it enough CPU to fit what it needed rather than just change it into a range neut domi.
I hope these changes will be scrapped and given a proper look based on what Amarr pilots actually need, rather than some cookie cutter model you guys are trying to throw ships into.
BTW - BUFF THE HARBINGER.
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Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
34
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm dead serious though. WHAT GEDDON PILOT WOKE UP ONE DAY AND SAID, OH, TODAY I WOULD LIKE TO BE A DOMINIX!
??????? |
Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
34
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Interesting how many people seem to dislike having logical options, instead of not really having to think at all. I'm not a cheap skate. If I want a Neuting ship I use a Bhaalgorn.
OR if you are cheap, what was stopping you from putting 8 heavy neuts on an APOC?
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Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
35
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
INB4 the Redeemer gets turned into a Sin.
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Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
47
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Posted - 2013.04.09 14:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
So after reviewing feedback on the Gallente Thread you have posted that you are going to take another look at the Mega and Hyp changes, but you haven't made a similar post regarding Amarr...
Do we need another 10 pages of complaints in order to get the same reconsideration? |
Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
47
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Posted - 2013.04.09 17:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think the simple fact that there is no longer an Amarr battleship with 8 low slots is indication enough that CCP Rise has made a serious mistake with the Amarr changes.
We do not need a T1 BS size continuation of the Dragoon/Arbitrator/Propephecy. The old Geddon had 125 Drone Bandwidth which was enough to reward Amarr players for training a secondard weapons system. Now, there is no Amarr Battleship that can provide High Laser damage while remaining manageable on the capacitor front. |
Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
47
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Posted - 2013.04.09 19:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm sorry to say but you guys getting into one on one quote-arguments is distracting the focus of this thread.
Regardless of what you think the optimal solution should be, I think that most people can agree that the current posted changes should be withdrawn and looked at again as they are doing with the proposed Gallente ones.
I simply cannot see these changes succeeding on TQ. They provide solutions to problems no-one had, and address none of the real problems Amarr pilots were running into.
The solution could have been as simple as leaving all the current boni, and just tweaking the CPU and PWG on the Apoc and Geddon.
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Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
47
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Posted - 2013.04.09 20:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
I would agree that we deserve some sort of response or somment from CCP Rise.
25 pages of Posts (minus the 10pages the ISDs removed for rage) should warrant ATLEAST 1 reply. |
Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
53
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Posted - 2013.04.11 13:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Its funny how the Gallente changes were totally re-done due to player outcry, and the Amarr changes, which are far worse, have been given A trivial adjustment.
Here is a great quote from CCP Rise on the updated Megathron post:
Quote:This design should also fit the 'flavor' that the Megathron has spent a decade building much more accurately.
How about the 'flavor' the Geddon has been building? It is ridiculous. There is no consideration being given to what Amarr Pilots actually need from their Ships, and the current changes just show how out of touch CCP is with the Amarr pilots.
> There is now no Amarr BS with 8 lows?  But the Megathron gets a perfect 7/4/8 layout that frankly would better suit the Geddon.
> There is now no Amarr BS that can fire its guns for any decent amount of time without burning through cap boosters at an absurd rate. Not that there was much cargohold m3 to hold them to begin with.
> The Apoc's #1 problem of not being able to fit a full rack of tachyons has not been addressed. Instead we have given it even more cap issues in return for a tracking bonus it did not need.
> The old Geddon's 125m3 drone bay was more than enough to encourage Amarr pilots to train drones, and reward them for their SP in the Prophecy/Dragoon ect.
> On a side note, CCP gave the Navy Harbinger a 5th mid and a tracking bonus instead of a 7th low.
Why is Amarr being shifted to a mid slot heavy race? It has never been this way and it shouldn't. Amarr should always have more low slots than their Gallente counterparts, and Gallente should have more mids.
I urge you to change direction before you throw ~10 years of this game out the window.
If you insist on this new direction I am afraid you will alienate dedicated Amarr pilots who have been playing for 8+ years now. |
Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
59
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Posted - 2013.04.11 21:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
I can't see why they shouldn't care, or atleast as much as they did for the Gallente.
Their initial Gal proposal was terribad so...
They took them down
Had a meeting
Posted new ones
New ones are way better.
Amarr?
Initial post is the worst of all proposed changes
25 Pages of complaints (mostly)
CCP Rise posts that he is reading them, but isn't changing anything.
He REDUCES the REDUCTION of the Apocs cap to 'solve' our complaint of the Apoc's cap
45 pages....still nothing substantial, especially concerning the Geddon.
I'm just going to keep posting until we get actual revisions. |
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Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
66
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Posted - 2013.04.12 14:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Oh looks like we finally got some responses!
Looks like CCP Rise's posts boil down to this:
"Thank you for posting. We changed Gallente becuase the changes didn't fit with the race flavor, but this doesn't apply to you. I am redefining Amarr's racial flavor so my changes make sense and your complaints are invalid. I win. Bye"
I, along with most dedicated Amarr pilots, DID NOT WANT A 'NEW EXCITING (aka terribad) DIRECTION' FOR OUR RACE. Our direction (Lasers & Armour supplemented by drones) WAS FINE. We just wanted you to do some quality of life changes to let the ships fully complete their existing roles, not decide that Amarr is no longer Amarr.
If people wanted to fly a drone boat, TRAIN GALLENTE AND GET THE DOMINIX.
If people wanted a Neut boat, PUT 8 HEAVY NEUTS ON THE BATTLESHIP OF YOUR CHOICE.
Actually CCP, just leave us alone. Don't touch our ships at all. I would rather you leave us as we are, as actual Amarr ships, than 'enjoy' your 'upgrades'.
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Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
67
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Posted - 2013.04.12 22:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Naso Aya wrote:
It's less the fact the ship was designed to carry drones, and more the fact that people really love the Lasergeddon.
The Laser Geddon is an iconic ship in Eve. They might as well have said they were deleting the Rifter, Thorax, Drake, or Hurricane. I don't mind the new Geddorn, but it's damn sure not a ******* Armageddon. And I want my ******* Armageddon back. -Liang
This 
I've tried explaining in multiple posts and threads to CCP Rise why we don't need these changes but it comes down to this.
Not much logic to it but Ive been playing Amarr since 2005, and i'm attached to it.
You've taken my Abaddon, my Archon ...but please, don't take my Armageddon...
leave us our one reminder of what eve used to be |
Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
79
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Posted - 2013.04.18 14:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
After all the feedback between this thread, the large energy turret thread, and the navy BC thread, it is still clear that Amarr are getting the worst end of all the new changes.
To Summarize:
---BS---
> Abaddon: -1% Resist/level. Hurts a ship that was never really overpowered. The new Megathron changes would have been sufficient to add variety to staple armour BS comps. Large energy turret changes help with cap usage a little, but not much.
> Apocalypse: -10% Laser Cap usage bonus, +7.5% Tracking. Gives the ship a tracking bonus which it really didn't need (never had tracking issues at long range). Takes away a cap usage bonus making the ship unviable for its role in both pvp and pve. Minor large energy turret fitting/cap usage changes help, but do not make up for loss of the -10%/level.
> Armageddon: -5% Laser ROF and -10% Laser Cap usage. +10% Drone Dmg/HP +10% Neut range. A radical redesign of one of EVE's most iconic and beloved ships. The loss of the Geddon as a cap friendly, 8 low slot, high dps laser boat hits Amarr hard, and instead gives it a vastly overrated drone and neut range boni which will quickly be realized to be sub-par. Fills a need that didn't exist and steps on the toes of the Dominix as well as Neut specialized ships. The gallente megathron now has 8 low slots, a claim that no Amarr BS can make now (racially out of line).
-----Non-BS-------
> Navy Harbinger: -10% Laser Cap usage, -25m3 drone bay, +7.5% tracking. Continues the tradition of making the Harbinger hull terrible relative to its racial counterparts. Claims to add flexibility but essentially accomplishes nothing except distracting from Amarr's tradition of Armour tanking laser boats. Amarr ships generally do not need more than 4 mids, and a 7/4/7 slot layout with a 10% armour HP bonus would have been more appropriate. Once again creates a situation of the Gallente counterpart (Navy Brutix) getting a more "Amarr" low slot heavy layout.
> Archon: -1% Resist/Level. Hurts solo/duo Triage Archon pilots A LOT. On a ship upon which the fate of many engagements has rested, the loss of 5% at lvl 5 punishes Pilots who have spent years maxing out SP and pilot skill into this ship. It performed its role well and the loss of the resists came as a part of a lazy CCP effort to buff active rep bonuses, by across the board nerfs to resists, without consideration to the Ship's actual balance level. Takes away another area that Amarr excelled at, narrowing the already narrow list of reasons to fly Amarr over Winmatar.
------Wall of QQ--------
Overall Amarr ships are getting worse across the board. Remedial measures such as the proposed fitting/cap changes to large energy turrets are pathetic and clearly highlight the problems CCP has created for itself in the poor quality of proposed changes.
Although CCP has done a good job addressing other areas/races like the Mega/Hyp, Raven, and cruise missiles, this will only add to the problems Amarr will face post-odyessy by increasing the performance gap that results from the above nerfs.
Amarr BS were solid Armour-Laser boats, each with its own specialized role. Taking away what made these ships Amarr instead of addressing the fitting issues that limited the Apoc/Geddon's usage will not fix anything. Add the useless Navy Harb, and the across the board -1% resist change, and we are left with a sub-par ship lineup that does not fit the racial flavor. Fewer low slots, more utility, more drones? These are things that were not the mainstay of Amarr ships, but were rather secondary traits, left for T2 and specialized hulls.
CCP's efforts to have ships acrosss hull classes fit a cookie cutter progression model is lazy, and is resulting in lackluster new hulls like the dragoon, becoming the template for classic models like the Geddon. The lack of meaningful feedback means that we will likley not see any major changes to these proposals before Odyessy, and I anticipate once all the changes hit, you will see significant hits to Amarr ship performance and usage. Newer Amarr pilots do not understand the scope and depth of how these changes corrupt the character of our race. Amarr has never been a easy race to fly, it has always been skill intensive and has always made fair sacrifices for what it excels in. The other races, especially Minmatar, have over the years become easier and easier to fly, while sacrificng little to nothing in retrun. With the latest changes, many Minmatar and Gallente ships will actually surpass Amarr in areas in which Amarr used to specialize. Is this really diversity?
I fear that the new path CCP has put Amarr on will just make the game bland, and reduce the need to crosstrain, giving each race a different colored version of the same thing, rather than letting each race excel at it's respective focus. There will be even fewer reasons to fly Amarr over their racial counterparts after Odyssey. To those that critcize older pilots for just being opposed to change, I would respond that we value meaningful change that fixes existing problems rather than changing the flavor of the race and adding more problems.
----TLDR----
Bad Amarr Changes are Bad. CCP is Lazy. Don't ruin our ships/race.
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Mr Hyde113
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
95
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Posted - 2013.04.25 18:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Rise's latest sumg responses on page 90 are the last straw for me. You have 90+ pages of feedback, most of it negative, from new and old pilots alike telling you that these changes are wrong. Your response to that is..."Well i'm going to ignore all of that becuase I think my changes are awesome and no amount of community outrage will change that."
Okay cool. Well since you won't listen to feedback, I have no reason to continue paying for this game when you have systematically ruined every ship I love.
I have just cancelled all 4 of my accounts. After 8+ years in this game, its sad to see you cause so much damage in one "Balance Pass" and have such a smug attitude while your customers rage.
o7 - Enjoy Winmatards-Online |
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